Legislature(2009 - 2010)BARNES 124
02/11/2009 03:15 PM House LABOR & COMMERCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB85 | |
| HR5 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HR 5 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 85 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HB 85-EXTEND BD ARCHITECTS/ENGINEERS/SURVEYORS 3:18:21 PM HOUSE BILL NO. 85, "An Act extending the termination date of the State Board of Registration for Architects, Engineers, and Land Surveyors; and providing for an effective date." 3:18:42 PM KONRAD JACKSON, Staff, Representative Kurt Olson and the House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee, explained that HB 85 would extend the Board of Registration for Architects, Engineers, and Land Surveyors (AELS) for eight years. He related that the Legislative Budget & Audit Committee (LB&A) recommended the AELS board should be extended from June 2009 to June 30, 2017. 3:19:45 PM REPRESENTATIVE BUCH asked for clarification of the bill's purpose. 3:20:00 PM REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL asked the auditor to explain the three recommendations contained in the legislative audit, Audit Control Number 08-20058-08. 3:20:47 PM PAT DAVIDSON, Legislative Auditor, Division of Legislative Audit, Alaska State Legislature, explained to members that various boards and commissions throughout the state are under sunset laws, which means the boards have specific termination dates associated with them. The Division of Corporations, Business, and Professional Licensing (DCBPL) within the Department of Commerce, Community, & Economic Development (DCCED) regulate most of the licensing boards that are subject to sunset provisions. She further explained that the Legislative Audit Division is required under law to review the board's activities and specific criteria to determine if the board is operated in the public interest. As a result of its audit, the Legislative Budget & Audit Committee (LB&A) reviewed and approved the legislative audit that determined the AELS Board is operating in the public's best interest and its termination date should be extended. Based on the LB&A's review, the DCBPL also recommended the board should be extended for eight years, which is June 30, 2017. 3:21:55 PM MS. DAVIDSON detailed that in the course of the audit review, auditors identified three areas for improvement. First, the auditors found that the AELS board had been hampered by unfilled vacancies. The LB&A recommended to the Office of the Governor that appointments should be made timely. She related her understanding that appointments have been made, although the legislature has not yet confirmed the AELS board appointees. MS. DAVIDSON explained that the auditors analyzed the finances of the AELS Board. By law, all boards are required to be financially self-sufficient, meaning the fees collected through licensing actions should cover the operating costs. She offered that the auditors discovered a surplus generated over the past few years for the AELS board. The auditors recommended that the DCBPL reduce the AELS fees and the DCCED concurred with the recommendation. MS. DAVIDSON offered the third audit recommendation, which was for "a little better housekeeping" as it refers to obtaining the required paperwork when issuing licenses to limited liability corporations (LLC) and limited liability partnerships (LLP). She explained that certain documents were missing from applicant files. She highlighted that the problem was not considered pervasive, but the problem needed to be corrected. The DCCED agreed to the changes, she stated. 3:23:35 PM REPRESENTATIVE BUCH inquired as to whether reductions in fees have been identified. MS. DAVIDSON answered that the AELS board's finances are reviewed at the end of each alternate fiscal year. When the LB&A recommends fees should be reduced, the DCCED sets the fees in consultation with the board. She offered that a few professions are licensed by the AELS board, and that several examinations are administered for the professions. The LB&A does not identify which fees should be reduced, just that the DCCED should make an assessment. She noted that if a large regulatory project is forthcoming or pending, the department may reduce the fees less than if overall expenditures are anticipated to be static. 3:34:49 PM CRAIG FREDEEN, P.E.; Vice-Chair, Board of Registration for Architects, Engineers and Land Surveyors (AELS), Department of Commerce, Community, & Economic Development (DCCED), began his testimony by stating that he works for PDC Engineers in Anchorage and has served on the AELS Board since 2004. He explained that the AELS board has been following the issue of Canadian licensure very closely, including meeting with the professional engineers of Canada, who are referred to as a "P.Eng". He advised that the P.Eng's have given presentations to the AELS Board and have attended regional and annual meetings of the National Council of Examiners for Engineering and Surveying (NCEES) for many years. The interest has increased due to the proposed gas pipeline, he stated. He related that he is a registered mechanical engineer and cannot speak to architects' and landscape architects' involvement. In May, some board members hope to attend the upcoming Western Zone meeting, the regional meeting of the NCEES, pending travel approval, which will be held in Banff, Canada. He emphasized that the Canadian engineers are very interested in obtaining comity with Alaska and other states. MR. FREDEEN explained that the methodology for Canadian licensure differs from the United States (US). He characterized the Canadian process as more of a journeyman process for licensure, while the US relies on four years of education, experience, and two examinations, the Fundamentals of Engineering exam (FE) and the Professional Engineering exam (PE) for licensure. Thus, the models do not mesh well, he opined. He related that the AELS has relaxed its licensure rules to allow Canadians to waive the FE exam, which is the exam taken as a college senior or right out of college. The process for licensure includes that engineering applications must take the PE examination approximately four years later. He further related that much discussion needs to take place to determine solutions for the PE license requirement in Alaska. Additionally, he expressed concern that the AELS board has for Alaskan engineers seeking licensure in Canada. He offered that some states such as Nevada and Texas accept comity licensure, but Alaska is not yet ready to take that step. 3:46:05 PM REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL related his concern, which is to ensure that discussions continue. He said he hopes that the AELS board will share any conclusions it reaches with the legislature. He said the legislature might ask why other states can offer comity licensure, yet Alaska cannot. He highlighted that the legislature could introduce a bill to focus dialogue on the reciprocity issue. He expressed interest in figuring out how Alaska's qualifications for engineering can fit into the journeyman process of Canadian licensure so that Alaskan engineers can work in Canada. CHAIR OLSON asked if a trade group was working on the licensure issue. MR. FREDEEN said he did not believe so. He mentioned that members of US licensure boards have been in discussion with representatives of the Canadian licensure board. He explained that the AELS board chair, Mr. Brownfield, has attended several meetings with respect to licensure. 3:47:51 PM REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL opined that presents a classic example of why the AELS board should not be extended to 2017 and possibly the legislature could "ratchet that back" to force a discussion on comity. 3:48:20 PM REPRESENTATIVE BUCH inquired as to whether the professional associations are international organizations. MR. FREDEEN answered yes, that the AELS board is a member of the NCEES for engineering, the National Council of Architectural Registration Boards (NCARB) for architects, and the Council of Landscape Architects (CLARB) for landscape architects. He stated that each state's licensing board is a member of the national organization. He explained that the national organizations own the exams, and that member boards attend annual and regional meetings to discuss issues such as international licensure. He pointed out that various agreements between nations exist to allow licensed design professionals to work in the U.S. and other countries. He highlighted that countries such as the United Kingdom (UK) belong to the Washington Accord. The agreements sort through issues such as dissecting the degree programs offered by foreign universities to ensure that the candidates have met the minimum standards for education as well as any other requirements for the licensure process. He stated at the international level "we're not there yet" with respect to international licensure for engineers. However, the NCEES is offering the licensure examinations in foreign cities such as Cairo, Egypt and is working to offer more locations for engineers to take engineering examinations overseas. REPRESENTATIVE BUCH inquired as to whether any collaboration effort exists to meld licensure for reciprocity. MR. FREDEEN explained that each state makes its own regulations and statutes for comity licensure. While some discussions occur at the national level to ensure that licensing requirements are the same, differences still exist. He opined that other countries still need to work out comity equivalency from nation to state on a state-by-state basis. In the meantime, engineers from other countries must obtain licensure by comity by meeting Alaska's requirements, just as engineers from other states must do so. He emphasized that restrictions on degrees obtained from other countries do not exist. Thus, every engineer in the world has a process to obtain licensure in Alaska, but minimum qualifications must be met to ensure public safety. He related his understanding that a "straight across, one-for-one" licensure process does not exist. 3:52:44 PM CHAIR OLSON opined that the committee would like reciprocity so that Alaskan engineers can also obtain licensure, particularly with Canadian licensure. He offered the committee's assistance. MR. FREDEEN expressed concern that currently when Canada issues a license to an Alaskan engineer that the license name for foreign license is different, although he could not recall the designation. He mentioned that the title for foreign engineers is a foreign P.Eng. Mr. Fredeen highlighted that the P.Eng title is reserved solely for Canadian engineers, while Canadians registered in Alaska are issued the title professional engineer (P.E.) just without differentiating them from Alaskan P.E.'s. CHAIR OLSON reiterated his offer for legislative assistance to the AELS board on reciprocity between the U.S. and Canada. 3:55:05 PM TERRY SCHOENTHAL, Member, Alaska Professional Design Council (APDC), and the American Society of Landscape Architects (ASLA), explained that the state has licensed landscape architects since 1998. He related that currently 49 states license landscape architects. Since 1998, landscape architects have held a temporary non-voting position on the AELS Board. He explained the rationale for this is that not many landscape architects are licensed in Alaska as compared to the other design professionals. However, ten years has passed and the landscape architect member is still a non-voting ex-officio temporary member. He surmised that this status may be the only one of its type among all the state's licensing boards. He acknowledged that licensing of landscape architects will continue when the temporary non-voting landscape architect membership on the AELS board disappears on June 30, 2009. However, since landscape architects will continue to be licensed, members representing other professions will make determinations on qualifications for licensure without input from a landscape architect. MR. SCHOENTHAL, expressed concern that a licensed landscape architect has volunteered his/her time on the AELS board during the past ten years, which represents substantial time and effort taken on his/her part. Yet, the landscape architect board member never had the opportunity to vote on any issues that came before the AELS Board. He applauded and commended the service of the two volunteer landscape architects who have served in that capacity for ten years. He opined that it may be beneficial to the state to have a licensed landscape architect board member review landscape architect applications for licensure. 3:57:50 PM MR. SCHOENTHAL, in response to Representative Holmes, answered that changing the non-voting temporary member to a permanent AELS member would require a statute change. He offered that in 2005, a bill passed the legislature that extended the temporary non-voting position until 2009. CHAIR OLSON explained that the committee used the legislative auditor's recommendations when preparing HB 85. He related that four years ago the legislative auditor recommended the landscape architect for membership on the AELS board, but that recommendation was not made in current legislative audit report. 3:58:40 PM MR. SCHOENTHAL provided additional history of the landscape architect that in 2004 the LB&A's audit report recommended that the landscape architect should be a voting position. He highlighted that in 2007, the AELS board recommended to convert the temporary landscape architect position to a full voting position. He mentioned that the APDC, an umbrella organization of design professionals, voted to support the landscape architect position as a full voting member of the AELS board at its January meeting. He stressed that at a minimum the landscape architects in Alaska would like to see the AELS board maintain a non-voting landscape architect position on the board. However, the landscape architect and other design professionals fully support making the temporary landscape architect member a full voting position of the AELS board. 3:59:45 PM REPRESENTATIVE BUCH expressed interest in the cost or additional resources required to make the non-voting landscape architect a permanent member of the AELS Board. He related that some committee members do not know the practical aspects and structure of the licensing boards. MR. SCHOENTHAL answered that the AELS board is entirely self- sufficient, in that the professions cover all its costs through biennial licensure fees. He further explained that other professionals subsidize the landscape architects since fewer landscape architects are licensed. He highlighted that the state does not cover the AELS board's costs or subsidize the board. Thus, the request to maintain the existing landscape architect board member on the AELS board would not entail additional funding. 4:01:40 PM HARLEY HIGHTOWER, Architect Member, Board of Registration for Architects, Engineers and Land Surveyors (AELS), Department of Commerce, Community, & Economic Development (DCCED), stated that he is a licensed architect who resides in Anchorage. He said he has served on the AELS Board for four years. He offered that the architects fall under the jurisdiction of the NCARB, consisting of 53 member board member jurisdictions, including all 50 states plus other jurisdictions including Puerto Rico, and Guam. MR. HIGHTOWER explained that NCARB is working with Canada. He stated he serves on a national NCARB subcommittee that writes and updates the qualifying examination. He offered that the NCARB has Canadian membership, as well, and Canadians also take the U.S. licensure examinations. He further explained that the accrediting board also has accredited some Canadian universities. Additionally, the NCARB is currently negotiating with European companies and Asia for cooperative agreements and collaborates with various countries for comity licensure and parity in licensing standards, he mentioned. 4:03:17 PM MR. HIGHTOWER, in response to Chair Olson, answered that Canadian architects have reciprocity in Alaska. He highlighted that the NCARB is further along with reciprocity in Canada than with other countries. 4:03:34 PM MR. HIGHTOWER, in response to Representative Buch, stated that Canada appears to be open to working with Alaska. He offered that currently Canada has more engineering work than it has engineers. Therefore, Canada is more open to reciprocity, he opined. 4:05:15 PM BURDETT LENT, Landscape Architect Member , Board of Registration for Architects, Engineers and Land Surveyors (AELS), Department of Commerce, Community, & Economic Development (DCCED) explained that he is a licensed landscape architect in Anchorage. He offered that the landscape architects work cooperatively with Canada and that Canadians are also members of their national organization, CLARB. Thus, Canadian landscape architects are subject to the same licensing requirements as U.S. landscape architects, he advised. FRANK RAST, P.E., stated he is the current president of the Alaska Professional Design Council (APDC), an umbrella organization of design professionals. He explained that the AELS board works to ensure the safety of Alaskans by ensuring that design professionals are qualified. He said he agrees with Representative Neuman that the legislature can remand the licensing board if the board is not operating within the desires of the legislature. He opined that the AELS Board is the best vehicle to ensure engineers, architects, and land surveyors outside of Alaska who perform work within Alaska meet standards that protect the public health, safety, and welfare of Alaskans. He suggested that in any profession unethical people will work outside their practice and jeopardize the public health. Thus, it is critical to have a licensing board, he noted. He reiterated that the LB&A audit indicates that the design professionals pay the AELS board expenses through their license fees. In fact, he advised a surplus currently exists for the AELS board since licensed AELS members have paid more in fees than total AELS board expenses in the past few years. He offered his willingness to pay fees to ensure continued professional competency in Alaska. 4:08:35 PM CHAIR OLSON, after first determining no one wished to testify, closed public testimony on HB 85. 4:09:04 PM REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN moved to report HB 85, Version 26-LS0420\A out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. There being no objection, HB 85 was reported from the House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee. CHAIR OLSON offered his belief that the issue of the landscape architect membership on the AELS Board was not included as a legislative audit recommendation and the matter should be introduced as a separate bill. 4:10:43 PM The committee took an at-ease from 4:10 p.m. to 4:13 p.m. 4:13:11 PM
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| good2.wmv |
HL&C 2/11/2009 3:15:00 PM |
HR 5 |
| Feb 11 Packet Information.doc |
HL&C 2/11/2009 3:15:00 PM |
HB 85 HR 5 |
| HR5 01 Bill ver R.pdf |
HL&C 2/11/2009 3:15:00 PM |
HR 5 |
| HR5 02 Employee Free Choice Act of 2007 (color).pdf |
HL&C 2/11/2009 3:15:00 PM |
HR 5 |
| HR5 03 Congress HR 800.pdf |
HL&C 2/11/2009 3:15:00 PM |
HR 5 |
| HB85 ver A.pdf |
HL&C 2/11/2009 3:15:00 PM |
HB 85 |
| HB85 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
HL&C 2/11/2009 3:15:00 PM |
HB 85 |
| HB85-CED-CBPL-02-09-09.pdf |
HL&C 2/11/2009 3:15:00 PM |
HB 85 |
| HB85 LBA Audit Summary #08-20058-08.pdf |
HL&C 2/11/2009 3:15:00 PM |
HB 85 |
| HB85 LBA Audit Report #08-20058-08.pdf |
HL&C 2/11/2009 3:15:00 PM |
HB 85 |
| HB85 Mark Davis Letter of Support.pdf |
HL&C 2/11/2009 3:15:00 PM |
HB 85 |
| HB85 LA Aug 07 mtg excerpt.pdf |
HL&C 2/11/2009 3:15:00 PM |
HB 85 |
| HR5 04 Bureau of Labor Statistics 2008 Union membership.pdf |
HL&C 2/11/2009 3:15:00 PM |
HR 5 |
| HR5 05 McGovernonEFCA.pdf |
HL&C 2/11/2009 3:15:00 PM |
HR 5 |
| HR5 06 Al Sharpton against EFCA.pdf |
HL&C 2/11/2009 3:15:00 PM |
HR 5 |
| HR5 07 Richard Epstein Unconstitutional.pdf |
HL&C 2/11/2009 3:15:00 PM |
HR 5 |
| HR5 08 US Chamber response.pdf |
HL&C 2/11/2009 3:15:00 PM |
HR 5 |
| HR5 09 Restaurant Workers.pdf |
HL&C 2/11/2009 3:15:00 PM |
HR 5 |
| HR5 ALEC Issue Alert.pdf |
HL&C 2/11/2009 3:15:00 PM |
HR 5 |
| HR5 Aves Thompson - Written Testimony Opposing Card Check 02112009.pdf |
HL&C 2/11/2009 3:15:00 PM |
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| HR5 Letter of Support AK Prosperity.pdf |
HL&C 2/11/2009 3:15:00 PM |
HR 5 |
| HR5 Letter of Support NFIB.pdf |
HL&C 2/11/2009 3:15:00 PM |
HR 5 |